Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

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Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

Arne Raaen
Hi,

I have a HobbyBoards relay card based on DS2408, used with LinkUSB

I used a routine (unconditionally) updating PIO.0 through PIO.5 every
minute.

I observed that PIO.6 and PIO.7 would be activated at random intervals,
typically a few times per day or less.


I attempted
* use all free pairs for a better ground line
* plug the LinkUSB directly into the HB card
* change from perl + OWNET to python + pyownet

Nothing helped reliably.

I than changed the code to read owserver first, and update only when
needed, which reduces owserver writes from 6 per minute to a few times
per day.

Since then I have not seen any unwanted activation of PIO.6 and PIO.7.

(Other owserver actvity is reading mainly temperature sensors, every minute)





Arne


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Re: Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

CReese
Maybe dumb question, but are the additional inputs floating or connected? I noticed some interesting behavior on these as well when in use recently. 

Colin


On Nov 18, 2016, at 1:45 AM, Arne Raaen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

I have a HobbyBoards relay card based on DS2408, used with LinkUSB

I used a routine (unconditionally) updating PIO.0 through PIO.5 every
minute.

I observed that PIO.6 and PIO.7 would be activated at random intervals,
typically a few times per day or less.


I attempted
* use all free pairs for a better ground line
* plug the LinkUSB directly into the HB card
* change from perl + OWNET to python + pyownet

Nothing helped reliably.

I than changed the code to read owserver first, and update only when
needed, which reduces owserver writes from 6 per minute to a few times
per day.

Since then I have not seen any unwanted activation of PIO.6 and PIO.7.

(Other owserver actvity is reading mainly temperature sensors, every minute)





Arne


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Re: Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

Arne Raaen
Rele 6 - PIO.6 was NC.

Rele 7 - PIO.7 was connected via about 5 m wire to a 2W LED light, and was turned on /off independently once a day by a shell script using owwrite.
I noticed the light was on at unexpected times.

All switches on the HB card was set for rele operation.  No inputs were connected.


Arne


On 18.11.2016 13.17, Colin Reese wrote:
Maybe dumb question, but are the additional inputs floating or connected? I noticed some interesting behavior on these as well when in use recently. 

Colin


On Nov 18, 2016, at 1:45 AM, Arne Raaen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

I have a HobbyBoards relay card based on DS2408, used with LinkUSB

I used a routine (unconditionally) updating PIO.0 through PIO.5 every
minute.

I observed that PIO.6 and PIO.7 would be activated at random intervals,
typically a few times per day or less.


I attempted
* use all free pairs for a better ground line
* plug the LinkUSB directly into the HB card
* change from perl + OWNET to python + pyownet

Nothing helped reliably.

I than changed the code to read owserver first, and update only when
needed, which reduces owserver writes from 6 per minute to a few times
per day.

Since then I have not seen any unwanted activation of PIO.6 and PIO.7.

(Other owserver actvity is reading mainly temperature sensors, every minute)





Arne


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Re: Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

Nigel Titley

The issue *may* be that the relay board is overloading the power available from the LinkUSB and causing random resets of the DS2408. It depends on the power required to drive the relays on the Hobbyboards board.

Our relay board takes 160mA with all relays energised and this will cause an overload on a LinkUSB which can only supply 50mA. If you are powering it separately then this isn't going to be an issue, of course.

Nigel


On 18/11/16 14:33, Arne Raaen wrote:
Rele 6 - PIO.6 was NC.

Rele 7 - PIO.7 was connected via about 5 m wire to a 2W LED light, and was turned on /off independently once a day by a shell script using owwrite.
I noticed the light was on at unexpected times.

All switches on the HB card was set for rele operation.  No inputs were connected.


Arne


On 18.11.2016 13.17, Colin Reese wrote:
Maybe dumb question, but are the additional inputs floating or connected? I noticed some interesting behavior on these as well when in use recently. 

Colin


On Nov 18, 2016, at 1:45 AM, Arne Raaen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

I have a HobbyBoards relay card based on DS2408, used with LinkUSB

I used a routine (unconditionally) updating PIO.0 through PIO.5 every
minute.

I observed that PIO.6 and PIO.7 would be activated at random intervals,
typically a few times per day or less.


I attempted
* use all free pairs for a better ground line
* plug the LinkUSB directly into the HB card
* change from perl + OWNET to python + pyownet

Nothing helped reliably.

I than changed the code to read owserver first, and update only when
needed, which reduces owserver writes from 6 per minute to a few times
per day.

Since then I have not seen any unwanted activation of PIO.6 and PIO.7.

(Other owserver actvity is reading mainly temperature sensors, every minute)





Arne


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Re: Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

Arne Raaen
I have separate  12 V power.


On 18.11.2016 17.01, Nigel Titley wrote:

The issue *may* be that the relay board is overloading the power available from the LinkUSB and causing random resets of the DS2408. It depends on the power required to drive the relays on the Hobbyboards board.

Our relay board takes 160mA with all relays energised and this will cause an overload on a LinkUSB which can only supply 50mA. If you are powering it separately then this isn't going to be an issue, of course.

Nigel


On 18/11/16 14:33, Arne Raaen wrote:
Rele 6 - PIO.6 was NC.

Rele 7 - PIO.7 was connected via about 5 m wire to a 2W LED light, and was turned on /off independently once a day by a shell script using owwrite.
I noticed the light was on at unexpected times.

All switches on the HB card was set for rele operation.  No inputs were connected.


Arne


On 18.11.2016 13.17, Colin Reese wrote:
Maybe dumb question, but are the additional inputs floating or connected? I noticed some interesting behavior on these as well when in use recently. 

Colin


On Nov 18, 2016, at 1:45 AM, Arne Raaen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

I have a HobbyBoards relay card based on DS2408, used with LinkUSB

I used a routine (unconditionally) updating PIO.0 through PIO.5 every
minute.

I observed that PIO.6 and PIO.7 would be activated at random intervals,
typically a few times per day or less.


I attempted
* use all free pairs for a better ground line
* plug the LinkUSB directly into the HB card
* change from perl + OWNET to python + pyownet

Nothing helped reliably.

I than changed the code to read owserver first, and update only when
needed, which reduces owserver writes from 6 per minute to a few times
per day.

Since then I have not seen any unwanted activation of PIO.6 and PIO.7.

(Other owserver actvity is reading mainly temperature sensors, every minute)





Arne


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Re: Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

Nigel Titley

OK, so that's not the issue.

Thinking about it, I've seen similar issues with owserver and a DS2408. I have seen random switching of outputs. I gave up using owfs to control the DS2408 and used the EDS Owserver binding on Openhab instead.

Nigel

On 18/11/16 17:28, Arne Raaen wrote:
I have separate  12 V power.


On 18.11.2016 17.01, Nigel Titley wrote:

The issue *may* be that the relay board is overloading the power available from the LinkUSB and causing random resets of the DS2408. It depends on the power required to drive the relays on the Hobbyboards board.

Our relay board takes 160mA with all relays energised and this will cause an overload on a LinkUSB which can only supply 50mA. If you are powering it separately then this isn't going to be an issue, of course.

Nigel


On 18/11/16 14:33, Arne Raaen wrote:
Rele 6 - PIO.6 was NC.

Rele 7 - PIO.7 was connected via about 5 m wire to a 2W LED light, and was turned on /off independently once a day by a shell script using owwrite.
I noticed the light was on at unexpected times.

All switches on the HB card was set for rele operation.  No inputs were connected.


Arne


On 18.11.2016 13.17, Colin Reese wrote:
Maybe dumb question, but are the additional inputs floating or connected? I noticed some interesting behavior on these as well when in use recently. 

Colin


On Nov 18, 2016, at 1:45 AM, Arne Raaen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

I have a HobbyBoards relay card based on DS2408, used with LinkUSB

I used a routine (unconditionally) updating PIO.0 through PIO.5 every
minute.

I observed that PIO.6 and PIO.7 would be activated at random intervals,
typically a few times per day or less.


I attempted
* use all free pairs for a better ground line
* plug the LinkUSB directly into the HB card
* change from perl + OWNET to python + pyownet

Nothing helped reliably.

I than changed the code to read owserver first, and update only when
needed, which reduces owserver writes from 6 per minute to a few times
per day.

Since then I have not seen any unwanted activation of PIO.6 and PIO.7.

(Other owserver actvity is reading mainly temperature sensors, every minute)





Arne


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Re: Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

Jan Kandziora
In reply to this post by Arne Raaen
Am 18.11.2016 um 10:45 schrieb Arne Raaen:

> Hi,
>
> I have a HobbyBoards relay card based on DS2408, used with LinkUSB
>
> I used a routine (unconditionally) updating PIO.0 through PIO.5 every
> minute.
>
> I observed that PIO.6 and PIO.7 would be activated at random intervals,
> typically a few times per day or less.
>
You cannot set single PIOs on the DS2408, owfs has to set them all as
one. That's why owfs maintains the last state written to the PIO byte.
As you found out the byte stored within owfs may be incorrect for
circumstances we have yet to check.

In the meantime, store the desired output pattern within your
application and write PIO.ALL (or PIO.BYTE) instead of individual bits.
That should make your problem go away immediately.

Kind regards

        Jan







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Re: Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

Martin Patzak (GMX)


On 11/18/2016 08:11 PM, Jan Kandziora wrote:

> Am 18.11.2016 um 10:45 schrieb Arne Raaen:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a HobbyBoards relay card based on DS2408, used with LinkUSB
>>
>> I used a routine (unconditionally) updating PIO.0 through PIO.5 every
>> minute.
>>
>> I observed that PIO.6 and PIO.7 would be activated at random intervals,
>> typically a few times per day or less.
>>
> You cannot set single PIOs on the DS2408, owfs has to set them all as
> one. That's why owfs maintains the last state written to the PIO byte.
> As you found out the byte stored within owfs may be incorrect for
> circumstances we have yet to check.
Well, that is rather news to me. I do set single PIOs on two DS2408 in
my application.
I NEVER expirienced a problem with random switching IOs - I run my
heating system since 2010 with owfs, so I don't think I have been lucky
all this time ;)

Would be interesting to know what exact system and environment the
random switching appears in.

I can write up my system or answer more detailed questions if it might
help. Just ask.

Cheers Martin

>
> In the meantime, store the desired output pattern within your
> application and write PIO.ALL (or PIO.BYTE) instead of individual bits.
> That should make your problem go away immediately.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Jan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/owfs-developers
>


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Re: Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

Arne Raaen
Hi,

I think what Jan explained is that DS2408 itself accepts only the full
byte.

So when you write a single PIO, owserver does the caching and rewrites
the whole byte

My basic setup is an Intel-based linux PC (several years old), running
Ubuntou 16.04   with owserver from the package, 3.1p1.
About 10 m cat-5 cable between the LinkUSB and the Hobbyboards card.

I also tested a Raspberry 1B, with just a short cable between the
LinkUSB and the Hobbyboards card, which may have improved the situation
a little bit
(that's why I attempted to strengthen my ground line), but the problems
persisted, perhaps at a lower rate.

Since I rewrote my code to only write when needed  (i.e. read owserver
first and write only if there is change), I have seen no problems for
almost 2 months.

That's why I naively thought "high traffic" might be the problem. But
the way I interpret Jan, the failure in caching properly (although not
understood) is not likely to be related to "overloading".

That could still be consistent with my observations, I guess,  I have
gone from 6x60x24 writes per day to a few.

Apart from the HobbyBoards DS2408 I have  nearly 20 DS18B20 and a few
DS2406, all parasitically powered, and a powered DS2450 on the bus.


Arne










On 28.11.2016 09.30, Martin Patzak (GMX) wrote:

>
> On 11/18/2016 08:11 PM, Jan Kandziora wrote:
>> Am 18.11.2016 um 10:45 schrieb Arne Raaen:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have a HobbyBoards relay card based on DS2408, used with LinkUSB
>>>
>>> I used a routine (unconditionally) updating PIO.0 through PIO.5 every
>>> minute.
>>>
>>> I observed that PIO.6 and PIO.7 would be activated at random intervals,
>>> typically a few times per day or less.
>>>
>> You cannot set single PIOs on the DS2408, owfs has to set them all as
>> one. That's why owfs maintains the last state written to the PIO byte.
>> As you found out the byte stored within owfs may be incorrect for
>> circumstances we have yet to check.
> Well, that is rather news to me. I do set single PIOs on two DS2408 in
> my application.
> I NEVER expirienced a problem with random switching IOs - I run my
> heating system since 2010 with owfs, so I don't think I have been lucky
> all this time ;)
>
> Would be interesting to know what exact system and environment the
> random switching appears in.
>
> I can write up my system or answer more detailed questions if it might
> help. Just ask.
>
> Cheers Martin
>
>> In the meantime, store the desired output pattern within your
>> application and write PIO.ALL (or PIO.BYTE) instead of individual bits.
>> That should make your problem go away immediately.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owfs-developers mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/owfs-developers
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Can the owserver be "overloaded"?

Martin Patzak (GMX)


On 11/28/2016 03:33 PM, Arne Raaen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think what Jan explained is that DS2408 itself accepts only the full
> byte.
>
> So when you write a single PIO, owserver does the caching and rewrites
> the whole byte
I did understand, what Jan meant, but did not understand why I never
seen a random switching of outputs for 6 years! I am running the heating
system of our house with it.
So if there is a problem in owfs buffering the bytes, what am I doing
different to not see it?

>
> My basic setup is an Intel-based linux PC (several years old), running
> Ubuntou 16.04   with owserver from the package, 3.1p1.
> About 10 m cat-5 cable between the LinkUSB and the Hobbyboards card.
>
> I also tested a Raspberry 1B, with just a short cable between the
> LinkUSB and the Hobbyboards card, which may have improved the situation
> a little bit
I did run a Rasberry for a while and moved to BananaPi last year.
I as well use the LinkUSB, but I use a selfmade IO-board, which has 3
DS2408 on it. 12 outputs and 12 inputs.

> (that's why I attempted to strengthen my ground line), but the problems
> persisted, perhaps at a lower rate.

My wiring is about 30m and I use only telephone cable.
The 12V and the 5V are externally powered. I do have the power (still)
on the same cable together with the 1wire signals, but it seems to work
ok - never touch a running system.

>
> Since I rewrote my code to only write when needed  (i.e. read owserver
> first and write only if there is change), I have seen no problems for
> almost 2 months.
I am curious what fixed the problem: the reduced rate of writing or the
reading inbetween.

I do a lot of reading as well: the task that communicates to the graphic
display (HMI) of the heating system reads the IOs every second and the
HMI gets updated accordingly.
One particular output gets written every second. It is an alive signal,
indicating that software and bus are up and running. The signal switches
an LED on and off and a relay switches on when the signal is not
triggered for a while which in turn sounds a horn (it is in the cellar,
so somebody can hear and react to it). The horn has not been heard of
for quite a while ;)

Otherwise the outputs gets written only rarely: maybe 40 to 50 times in
24 hours.

>
> That's why I naively thought "high traffic" might be the problem. But
> the way I interpret Jan, the failure in caching properly (although not
> understood) is not likely to be related to "overloading".

again, why don't I see this???

>
> That could still be consistent with my observations, I guess,  I have
> gone from 6x60x24 writes per day to a few.
>
> Apart from the HobbyBoards DS2408 I have  nearly 20 DS18B20 and a few
> DS2406, all parasitically powered, and a powered DS2450 on the bus.
On the same bus I have 25 powered DS18B20 which I read every 30 seconds
after a simultaneous command.

>
>
> Arne
Thanks Arne for explaining your system more detailed. What does your
system do?

Cheers Martin

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 28.11.2016 09.30, Martin Patzak (GMX) wrote:
>> On 11/18/2016 08:11 PM, Jan Kandziora wrote:
>>> Am 18.11.2016 um 10:45 schrieb Arne Raaen:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have a HobbyBoards relay card based on DS2408, used with LinkUSB
>>>>
>>>> I used a routine (unconditionally) updating PIO.0 through PIO.5 every
>>>> minute.
>>>>
>>>> I observed that PIO.6 and PIO.7 would be activated at random intervals,
>>>> typically a few times per day or less.
>>>>
>>> You cannot set single PIOs on the DS2408, owfs has to set them all as
>>> one. That's why owfs maintains the last state written to the PIO byte.
>>> As you found out the byte stored within owfs may be incorrect for
>>> circumstances we have yet to check.
>> Well, that is rather news to me. I do set single PIOs on two DS2408 in
>> my application.
>> I NEVER expirienced a problem with random switching IOs - I run my
>> heating system since 2010 with owfs, so I don't think I have been lucky
>> all this time ;)
>>
>> Would be interesting to know what exact system and environment the
>> random switching appears in.
>>
>> I can write up my system or answer more detailed questions if it might
>> help. Just ask.
>>
>> Cheers Martin
>>
>>> In the meantime, store the desired output pattern within your
>>> application and write PIO.ALL (or PIO.BYTE) instead of individual bits.
>>> That should make your problem go away immediately.
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Owfs-developers mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/owfs-developers
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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